Autor: Plato

Buch: Gorgias

Titel: Gorgias

Stichwort: Ist das Angenehme das Gute? Selbstdisziplin als Ordnung des Geistes; Hedonismus; das Gute als Grund der Lust oder umgekehrt

Kurzinhalt: Is the pleasant the same as the good? ... We shouldn't refuse to restrain our desires, because that condemns us to a life of endlessly trying to satisfy them

Textausschnitt: Socrates: Here goes, then. I'll review the whole argument so far. Is the pleasant the same as the good? No, they're different. Callicles and I agreed on that. (Fs; 103f) (notabene: Zusammenfassung)

Should the good be the reason we do pleasant things, or the pleasant be the reason we do good things? The good should be the reason we do pleasant things. (Fs)

Isn't it the quality of being pleasant which makes (506d) us enjoy things, and the quality of being good which makes us good?

Yes. (Fs)

Now, what does it take to be a good human being? What does it take to be a good anything, in fact? It always takes a specific state of goodness, doesn't it? I don't see how we can deny that, Callicles. (Fs)

And whether we're talking about a good artefact, a good body, a good mind for that matter, or a good creature, what it takes for these states of goodness to occur in an ideal form is not chaos, but organization and perfection and the particular branch of expertise whose province the object in question is. Right? I agree. (506e) (Fs)

In every case, then, a good state is an organized and orderly state, isn't it? I'd say so. (Fs)

So a thing has to be informed by a particular orderly structure-the structure appropriate to it-to be good, doesn't it? I think so. (Fs)

Doesn't it follow that a mind possessed of its proper structure is better than a disordered mind? It's bound to be. (Fs)

But a 'mind possessed of orderly structure' is an orderly mind, isn't it? Naturally. (Fs)

And an orderly mind is a self-disciplined mind?

Absolutely. (507a) (Fs)

From which it follows that a self-disciplined mind is a good mind. Now, I can't see anything wrong with this argument, Callicles, but if you can, please tell me what it is. (Fs)
Callicles: Just get on with it, Socrates.

Socrates: All right. If a self-disciplined mind is good, then a mind in the opposite state is bad. In other words, an undisciplined and self-indulgent mind is bad. Yes. (Fs; 104f)

Now, a disciplined person must act in an appropriate m